why? Because this is a sign of the times. I think you're right about the "cultural Christians." Many go because that's what they do. They go to church. You only see them on Sunday and the rest of the week they're doing their thing. It wasn't like that in the early church when they were on fire meeting all during the week excited about the Gospel. And it spread too like wild fire.

While there are still churches that are doing good things you have to shop around to find them. Most, as you have indicated have so watered down the gospel they are no heavenly good. Membership usually declines after a while. Sometimes I wonder why they even bother to meet. We have a few here that are happy if 12 show up Sunday morning. Forget about the mid week stuff.

I am currently involved in a church that is on fire and is growing as a result expedientially. Because of this we are now thinking of hiring a third Pastor. Now having said that, we too, have an inner core that seem to go to anything the Pastor initiates. But that core is about 30-40 most of the time.

From what you wrote here, I'd say your Pastor needs to edify the body first before he even thinks of going outside with them. Our motto at our church is ....reaching, teaching, serving and sending. We need to equip the body before we send them anywhere. Sounds like you could do alot to help your Pastor here since you have the heart of reaching out to others. It all starts first at home and with alot of prayer.

Thanks KFC - I agree that the church needs to be built up. I think our pastor feels that too. He has changed his ministry a lot this year; spending more time in the homes of the congregation, leading discipleship class for new believers in the church, reaching out to those who have been hurt by the church. I worry sometimes that he is spending so much time on this alone. We have no other staff and, as you have read, our people (with the exception of two or three) don't care much about anyone but themselves. They minister great to their little group but they won't even attempt to reach the person on the other side of the isle.

In actuality, it's probably only 4-6 people who are doing this. But they are loud and forceful about it. They have been very vocal about opposing the pastor...even so much to freeze his wages last year (even though we had the best financial year we have ever had). In talking with the deacon who wanted to reach the community (let's call him Keith), Keith believes that these people wanted to run the pastor off, but what they got was a pastor who was faithful to stay where God wanted him and the fire of God was rekindled in him.

I like your church's motto. I think our church would do well to apply this here. I wonder: what did it take for your church to adopt that as a motto. How did you get the whole congregation to get on board and begin living this?

The first thing you need to relay to your Pastor is eldership. He needs to find a couple, three or four if he can, and appoint elders. This is biblical. These men have to adhere to the qualification set down in Timothy and Titus. They have to be good God fearing men who have a heart for God. Then they have to pray together every week for the church. That is the beginning. Just pray and start a plan after that. Start meeting faithfully. Watch what God will do. It is God who will bring the people in when he sees the headship of your church in full obedience to HIM. You will see him supplying a full body as put forth in Corinthians. It's awesome!!! We try too hard sometimes and need to "lean on Him" more than we do.

Disciple groups are great. The Pastor going into the houses is a good thing, not absolutely necessary but I know people like to see the Pastor working. It makes them feel like their money is not wasted or something. But if anything this is more of a deacon thing taking care of the physical needs of the church. The elders/Pastor should be taking care of the spiritual needs of the church.

As far as going out to cold evangelize? Well that would be hard for us to get a big group to do as well. People don't like doing this. Instead we have outreaches for the community. It started out small at first but got bigger and bigger as we grew. It may be a Cantata at Christmas time encouraging all our friends and neighbors to come. We live in a rural area as well. This year our Cantata was so packed it was unbelievable. The word is getting out. We did two nights and had about 250 people a night there.

We do VBS big at our church and include adults with a class for them. We do it at 6-8 pm for a week in the summer. The Pastor leads the adults while the members of the church do the kids. We do it up big. We have had many people come back as a result of a good VBS program like this. We do a dinner theatre every spring. We are now packed going to two nights. We charge nothing for any of these outreaches. We pay for it all. As we do all these things, God brings more people in. We grow and the next time we have more involved in these programs which in turn get bigger and better. It's like a snowball growing bigger as it gathers up more snow.

Of course you start small at first. When the people and their talents start coming in you do it bigger the next time. You can't be afraid of change and you must stick to what the scriptures say. Never water it down to be people pleasers. People are hungry for the word of God. Absoultely starving and they need to be fed. When we do the dinner theatre we feed them both spiritually and physically and it's a great night out for them for free.

Now having said this, the weak or rebellious church goers will have a struggle. They may leave. Let them. Don't be afraid of that. We've been thru this. We had some rebellion but when they saw the strength at the top and how Godly these men were they got on board but not without some struggles first. If they come at your pastor or his helpers with accusations or wanting their way, push the bible across the desk and ask them to show you where they are getting their ideas from. Always bring it back to what God's word says.

Andrew,

The answer is simple. We were commanded to "go and make disciples". We're going, allright, but we're not making disciples.

I think it all amounts to whom we are serving. We mistakenly believe we're serving the people, but we should be, in fact, serving God. When we serve people, we look to immediate responses, and, not seeing them, direct our attentions elsewhere. When we serve God, we focus on the long term, on the real world that is to come.

I believe some serious changes need to take place in the hearts and minds of many Christians. I don't say that self righteously; I'm first and foremost in that struggle. I believe we need to set about doing what God directed of us and reaching out to a world that desperately NEEDS the Gospel message. When we do that, I believe we will see the rewards in our churches.

Well said Gid. The best way to make disciples is by observation. They must see God in us. If we are serving God as we ought, then they will see that light in us and it will show them the way. How's that for really simple....LOL?

Sooooo.....shine on!